Joe Biden will not be the Democratic nominee in November’s presidential election, thankfully. He is not withdrawing because he’s being held responsible for enabling war crimes against the Palestinian people (though a recent poll does have nearly 40 percent of Americans saying they’re less likely to vote for him thanks to his handling of the war). Yet it’s impossible to extricate the collapse in public faith in the Biden campaign from the “uncommitted” movement for Gaza. They were the first people to refuse him their votes, and defections from within the president’s base hollowed out his support well in advance of the debate.

The Democrats and their presumptive nominee Kamala Harris are faced with a choice: On the one hand, they can continue Biden’s monstrous support for Netanyahu, the brutal IDF, and Israel’s genocide of Palestinians. That would help allow the party to cover for Biden and put a positive spin on a smooth handoff, even though we all know this would mainly benefit the embittered president himself and his small coterie of loyalists. Such a choice would confirm that the institutional rot that allowed the current situation to develop still characterizes the party.

  • subversive_dev@lemmy.ml
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    5 months ago

    And do you know how many American lives are being saved by letting Israel fight Iran as a proxy rather than letting it fall and having to deal with the headache afterwards?

    Wow, what an argument. Look the other way and prop up the genocidal apartheid state because otherwise we might have to use blood in addition to treasure to defend imperial interests in the Middle East. Just…wow.

    It’s the same reason why the embargo of Cuba still exists.

    What reason is that exactly?

    • BlameThePeacock@lemmy.ca
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      5 months ago

      I mean, yea. You think the world is some happy go lucky place where people don’t fight each other?

      The US dropped two nuclear bombs on civilians in Japan to end a war quickly, and despite the backlash they’d kill civilians again in a heartbeat if it was beneficial to America. The number of civilians that died from the American invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan after 9/11 shows that very clearly. The current Palestinian death toll is less than 10% of that 20 year conflict, and it was done by Americans directly.

      Cuba is being used as a pawn by other countries to threaten the US, the same as it was during the cold war. Russia and China didn’t write off $40 billion dollars for free over the last decade.

      • subversive_dev@lemmy.ml
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        5 months ago

        I mean, yea. You think the world is some happy go lucky place where people don’t fight each other?

        Umm…lol no. I think the world is run by military forces and their obedient governments.

        The US dropped two nuclear bombs on civilians in Japan to end a war quickly

        Vaporize civilians for peace!

        they’d kill civilians again in a heartbeat if it was beneficial to America

        If by America you mean imperial warmaking and profits then yes, “they” have, would, and will continue.

        The number of civilians that died from the American invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan after 9/11 shows that very clearly. The current Palestinian death toll is less than 10% of that 20 year conflict, and it was done by Americans directly

        This point is really confusing but…yay America?

        Cuba is being used as a pawn by other countries to threaten the US

        Wow what a take. Other countries support Cuba, so the USA gets to perpetuate invasions, assassination attempts, terrorism and eternal economic warfare. The Cubans have no autonomy but also they brought this on themselves.

      • Maggoty@lemmy.world
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        5 months ago

        If you want to compare casualties then you need to compare the same periods. The average monthly casualties for the period we had data was far higher than the war on Iraq. Which is kind of to be expected since we were there for 10 years. It’s also a much larger country with more people exposed to proportionally larger forces fighting.

        So let’s do this the right way. According to the Iraqi Body Count project around 200,000 civilians were killed. Or 0.8 percent of civilians in Iraq. In Gaza that number is 2 percent. More than double. And that’s just the bodies that made it to a morgue while the health ministry was still capable of accurately counting bodies. Estimates of people who are missing, presumed dead, under the rubble are in the six figure range. So let’s be generous and set the total at 100,000, so 60k under rubble, far below the estimates. That’s 5 percent of the civilian population dead.

        This is not a road you want to go down. Any analysis beyond the most shallow reflects extremely poorly on Israel.

        • BlameThePeacock@lemmy.ca
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          5 months ago

          Percentage of the total population is a bad stat, a dead person regardless of how many people you started with.

          The point I was trying to make is that the US is clearly okay with killing civilians.

          • Maggoty@lemmy.world
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            5 months ago

            Right. Those two ratios are clearly the mark of countries with the same attitude towards civilian deaths.

            • BlameThePeacock@lemmy.ca
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              5 months ago

              If you only murder one person, does it not matter?

              Death percentages do not matter to the families involved.

                • BlameThePeacock@lemmy.ca
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                  5 months ago

                  All I’m saying is that the US citizenry was almost totally fine with the civilian deaths after 9/11, there were only a handful of protests in the US and a lot more support for that war than not (at the time).

                  If they had attacked and killed 1000 Americans on Oct 7th, there would be far more dead Palestinians, and zero university encampments.