- cross-posted to:
- pcgaming@lemmy.ca
- cross-posted to:
- pcgaming@lemmy.ca
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Until more recently when they started getting competion, what other handheld gaming PCs even existed?
GPDwin for example?
I always wanted a mini laptop basically as big as my current phone but actually mobile.
Sadly I didnt have enough F-U money :(There’s been a handful but nothing I could name off the top of my head and the specs meant anything more impressive than Super Meat Boy might be out of the question.
Just cheap crappy Windows 8 tablets for the most part, with controller buttons tacked on.
The first one I had was a GPD Win 2, in like 2018/2019-ish. You could do some fairly recent 3D stuff on it at the time, but it was better for 2D games.
I love when my hands get dominated
They better release a new one before I break down and buy a new “gaming laptop” because I sometimes game.
What are you playing that needs more then the deck currently offers?
Show me your deck
Deck pics
Yes, you’ve got a nice deck, okay??
I trimmed the bushes around it so it looks bigger.
Personally, I think the Deck is too big for my tastes, but the beauty of the ecosystem is that anyone can make one while still having almost all the Deck features.
I’d love to have a Vita or even PSP sized Steam handheld with a great screen for smaller titles, but that comes with its own problems
At some point you’re going to struggle to put a capable x86 machine in a device that small.
Might run into trouble with UIs as well, but the heart wants what the heart wants.
Yeah the one big thing Valve probably won’t touch is ARM because unlike WINE, that’s a whole other beast in which the only valid solution is for game devs to compile for ARM, because translation layers like Rossetta and Box64 will always have 20-30% performance losses.
I think the Deck is too big for my tastes
That’s what she said.
Honestly though I love the size of the deck but could even go a little bigger. Agree that as more manufacturers start using SteamOS it will be great to have options.
Are you kidding me? Steam Deck is so big and clunky. Don’t even get me started on the piss poor ergonomics and the thing is fucking heavy as shit too!
I love it because it’s open source, but it’s shortcomings really leave a lot to be desired in my opinion.
pls to meke stem controller 2 🥲 😻
If you’re just looking for sales numbers, which we haven’t had much of for a long time, the long and short of it is:
4M Steam Decks since launch, 2M of all of its competitors combined; expected that all handheld PCs sharing this AMD tech will sell about 2M more this year.
To put it in perspective there are 150 million Switches and 75 million PS5s out there. And 15 million Wii Us, if anybody is counting. This puts PC handhelds some ways ahead of the N-Gage and well behind the Game Gear.
I’m less concerned about who’s ahead in the handheld PC market and more interested on whether it’ll ever become a mass market space. I think a lot depends on prices for integrated GPUs not skyrocketing like their desktop counterparts and their performance stepping up a notch or two. We’ll see.
I look at the Steam Deck less as an end product and more of a means.
The Steam Deck is absolutely getting slaughtered by the Switch in terms of sales, but it gives Valve an alternative to the Windows ecosystem that is becoming more hostile as Microsoft tries to muscle in on gaming. I also think that Valve could have designed a Steam Deck variant to compete with the Switch 2, but hasn’t for various reasons
Already, Valve has the technology to create a console to compete with a PS5 and Xbox Series X, but doesn’t seem to want to.
I can’t imagine it would be that much harder to make a Chromebook equivalent, giving it access to the PC market without Windows.
Since Valve is using Linux, developing the tech stack is cheap. Also, Valve seems to be selling hardware for a profit, so it may be more comfortable with slimmer margins.
I think it’s very interesting to note that mainstream consoles like the Switch or PS5 have massive ad campaigns behind them, expensive television spots, and a constant churn of new exclusives that they’re using to keep themselves in the conversation. The Steam Deck certainly had an ad campaign, but it feels impressive to me that they managed to make those numbers happen mostly just through throwing up an announcement on the Steam front page and then having it review well once it found its way into critics’ hands.
Maybe handheld gaming PCs aren’t something that has mass market appeal? It feels like theres so many variables that depend on it. Exclusives? Price? Ease of use? Brand recognition? Advertising? Im glad Valve is happy with deck’s sales numbers becuase it means we will probably keep seeing more support for it and newer models down the line. It still feels like if Microsoft launched a handheld xbox, it would probably still be a console first experience without traditional PC functionality and probably sell more while directly competing with switch 2. Definitely will be interesting to see how handheld PC pan out in the next 5 years, right now it feels like a slowly emerging market.
Maybe? That’d be a shame, I do like PC handhelds.
As you say, it doesn’t seem that manufacturers are too unhappy with their sales here, but I’d also like to see scale grow to the point where we can start seeing devices launch cheaper, rather than more expensive. Besides the presumably heavily subsidized (or at least priced for scale) Deck the more interesting alternatives are luxury items. It’d be nice to see them find some room for more competitive pricing, and that probably requires adding a zero to the sales numbers.
It’s worth keeping in mind what’s different here though. If the Steam Deck came out in the early 90s, it wouldn’t be analogous to the Game Gear; it would be competing with the Nomad. It plays the same games as a PC but handheld, so it’s capturing specifically the market that wants to extend that library to be handheld as well. Every Switch sold is handheld, but outside of the Switch Lite, we don’t know who values that system for its handheld capabilities (I basically never used my Switch handheld back when I actually used it). There was also literally no competition for it when it launched, so it will be interesting to see how many opt for a handheld PC instead when the handheld part is what they’re looking for.
Additionally, there’s this rising market segment of mini PCs that are powered by the same tech that’s in these handhelds. I’ve got one that I like to bring around for local multiplayer games, and if you only ever intend to use a computer at a desk for basic documents and web browsing, they can undercut low-end laptop prices for the same level of power and run the same operating system. Based on recent rumors, this tech could wind up in a new crop of Steam Machine-esque consoles very soon but with the library problem more or less solved compared to ten years ago.
Yeeeah, I don’t know that “it’d slot in next to the Nomad” is a ringing endorsement of mainstream appeal.
You, by the way, are not in the majority in your usage pattern for the Switch. Every bit of info available suggests that handheld vs docked use of the Switch is pretty much evenly split. Which is surprising to me, because I see it as a handheld first and foremost.
I do agree that it’ll be interesting to see how the Switch 2 fares in a market where it’s not the only thing in its class, but if I had to place any bets, they have a humongous lead despite PC handhelds having been around for ages and the Deck having taken a very good stab at competitive pricing and performance a whole three years ago (what is even time, holy crap).
As for mini PCs… Man, I don’t get mini PCs. I’m very much an early adopter of weird tech, I have more SBCs and handheld devices than I know what to do with, but… who wants a screenless laptop? Or an underpowered, overpriced desktop? I can see some use cases for it, I’ve had some NUCs and thin clients here and there, I just don’t think the value proposition is there to use them even as a media device. But hey, it’s a small but clearly competitive space, and if this gen APUs do indeed match a 4060 desktop level of performance when fed enough power maybe that starts to make sense next to a Xbox Series S or something as a gaming device. We’ll see.
For the record, I do have a PC plugged into a TV for gaming, mostly made out of spares and hand-me-downs built into a smaller, less garish case. I haven’t seen a mini PC that made me question that choice yet. I’m open to having my mind changed, it just hasn’t happened yet.
Yeeeah, I don’t know that “it’d slot in next to the Nomad” is a ringing endorsement of mainstream appeal.
PC gaming has mainstream appeal, measurably. There are lots of reasons to play games on PC, and this is an additional one, particularly compared to PlayStation and Xbox, moreso than Switch.
Every bit of info available suggests that handheld vs docked use of the Switch is pretty much evenly split.
I haven’t seen any reporting on that in a long time, since before this PC form factor existed, but I’d happy to peruse a link. I see some people playing Switch on the subway from time to time, but also anecdotally, most of my friends, all adults, play them docked just about exclusively. I’ve definitely seen children playing Switch Lites at the laundromat as a tool that parents use to keep them busy.
As for mini PCs… Man, I don’t get mini PCs. I’m very much an early adopter of weird tech, I have more SBCs and handheld devices than I know what to do with, but… who wants a screenless laptop? Or an underpowered, overpriced desktop?
My use case is I have a very easily packed and unpacked local multiplayer machine, for emulators and fighting games especially. The Steam Deck is a bit of a pain to set up for this use case, and it can’t run Street Fighter 6 very well or at the resolutions I’d want it to, but the mini PC does all of that very well. That use case, and some interested fighting game tournament organizers I’ve been talking to, are admittedly very niche, but I think the alternative for a laptop has real legs. My friend just got one for her dad (in his late 60s) for a little north of $150. It runs Windows. It allows him to browse the web and run his office applications, plus whatever else he needs to run on x64. Most older folks I see using laptops only ever use them in a single place like a desk anyway, and they’d rather output them to a larger monitor. This is where I think this form factor will sing in the coming years, plus the real possibility of whatever living room PC game machine that Valve can put together for decent value. The other advantage is that not only can they be cheap up front and take up less space, they also use less electricity and produce less waste heat.
PC gaming absolutely has mainstream appeal, and it’s growing. Just not specifically because of the handheld market. By the numbers, anyway. I find people tend to hedge on this. Either the Steam Deck is a consolized solution to PC gaming that makes the Switch obsolete or a bit of an experiment that doesn’t need to stack up to mainstream devices.
Yes, PCs (desktop PCs, laptops and handhelds together) are comparable to 4K home consoles these days and lead in some segments. But of those categories the handhelds are the smallest contributor while they are the largest portion of the console market. I love PC handhelds and I’d like to see those proportions shift, but it’s interesting that Valve has put a lot of resources behind having a competitive device at a very low price point and we haven’t seen more of a change.
On the docked vs handheld thing, Nintendo disclosed that info a few times. This is the first result I found just searching for it. It’s recent enough that there were already a hundred million of the things in the wild, so I don’t expect it’ll have changed much.
As for the mini PC thing… yeah, sure. I mean, I’m not sayng they don’t do the thing, I’m saying whenever I sit to look at the optimal solution for a problem the mini PCs never seem to come out on top. A PC for an older person taht doesn’t need a ton of computing power? I went with an Android tablet with a detachable keyboard last time, they are delighted at having a laptop-style thing and a tablet to watch media that works like their phone. A low power device to run some specific application? I can probably find some cheap SBC somewhere I can get running passively with a heatsink and will do the job. A portable gaming solution? I have laptops with dedicated GPUs around that are older but much faster than most mini PCs. Also, they have a screen, so there’s that. A set-top box? I can put something together for cheaper in the same performance range.
There are valid use cases. Sure, if you need a dozen of these things to embed in desktops, or something you can mount behind a screen, or… something to run a FGC tourney for cheap, apparently, there are reasons to use them. I just haven’t found they provided a better alternative than other devices for most of the uses I personally have.
PC gaming absolutely has mainstream appeal, and it’s growing. Just not specifically because of the handheld market. By the numbers, anyway.
I’d wager that the reason the PC market has grown is due to a million different reasons that, on their own, are quite small. Probably not many people would ditch their PlayStation just for mods. Or just for more freedom on controller choices. Or just for better performance. Or just for free online play. Etc.
If I might nitpick your link on the handheld usage, which by the way is dated approximately right when this handheld PC market was born, the thing that Nintendo was seemingly seeking to justify with that data is, “Do people switch with the Switch?”, but it would not answer the question, “How many people would buy the handheld-capable version if they already had a more powerful stationary machine that plays the same games?”
I’m confused on what your hypothesis is here. You think PC handhelds are massively shifting the modes of usage of the Switch towards being primarily docked? I’m not gonna dig for it, but my understanding was that the Switch usage was slowly drifting towards more handheld over time. Even if that wasn’t the case, the numbers just don’t match. Even if 10 million people had shifted from using the Switch as a handheld to a PC handheld, why would that impact the remaining 130 million users? PC handhelds are a rounding error in the space the Switch operates in.
If I had to guess the drift towards PC probably has a lot to do with software. PC ports weren’t a given until recently and they arguably still aren’t reliably great. With console exclusives becoming fewer and further between and both first parties now willing to ship PC ports there just is less of an incentive to be stuck to a specific piece of hardware. PCs have always been backwards and forwards compatible, but with all sorts of devices able to run the same software across many device types and hardware generations that is becoming a big selling point.
Which on the Switch is a lot weaker, mostly because Nintendo is better at making a ton of first party games than Sony and Microsoft and because they have a younger userbase that is less likely to have three other gaming-worthy devices at their fingertips at all times.
Comparing 90’s handheld gaming to 2020’s handheld PC’s doesn’t make a whole lot of sense.
I’m comparing unit sales. The Deck just happens to slot in between older handhelds in terms of unit sales. It also sold about as much as the Saturn and a little more than the Dreamcast, as far as I can tell. I may be ahead of both and on par with the Wii U now, but Steam isn’t super transparent with giving sales numbers.
I get that but saying it’s sold less than the game gear implies a pretty serious failure lol I just don’t think they’re even in the same product lineup and the comparison doesn’t make a lot of sense.
I’ll admit I’m being a little nitpicky I’m not trying to start a fight with you here or something
No, I get it, no animosity here. I’m just curious about why you think the bar is fundamentally different for the Deck than for consoles in general.
Hell, adjusted for inflation the Game Gear retailed for the equivalent of 300 bucks at launch, which is not far off from the lowest price for the Deck at 399. Plus 90s devices sold a lot less than modern devices. Why would meeting the Game Gear not be a reasonable target for the Deck?
It’s the most successful individual PC handheld, but it’s also not made it into the same range as most consoles so it hasn’t turned this product category into a mainstream device… yet.
I think where I struggle to compare them is that the game gear was meant to be a mass market device that would sell tens of millions of units if not upwards of a hundred million. Handheld PCs have a narrower audience and tend to skew more tech savvy, especially in the case of the Steam Deck. They have much lower expectations for units sold because they’re not trying to do the “sell a bazillion units -> sell a hundred bazillion games for our system” game. In valve’s case they’re clearly creating a steam-dominated ecosystem that expands well beyond their handhelds.
Hah. You’re overestimating the potential of 90s gaming devices. No game console, handheld or not, had sold a hundred million units. Hell, the Game Boy didn’t crack into the hundreds until the Game Boy Color came around, and it was certainly the first.
Anyway, mild exaggeration aside, I get what you’re aiming for, but I guess my question is why people read that positioning on Valve devices in the first place. There’s no obvious indication that Valve is any less ambitious than any other first party, or any reason why they would be. They went to AMD and comissioned a custom APU at scale, just like Nintendo, Sony or Microsoft are doing. The only differentiating factor is they built the thing on top of a mostly usable pre-existing OS (which I suppose Microsoft also does, but hey). If anything their entire call to fame was to “consolize” Linux for SteamOS, which they’d been trying to do for a while anyway.
I agree that their goal is to set up an ecosystem that works for them, but I find it surprising that people assume they’re disinterested in hardware sales. If I had to guess I’d say it’s because they refuse to market too hard outside their own ecosystem, so their branding feels different than the more in-your-face releases of Sony, MS or Nintendo products and people assume that’s because they’re intrinsically or intentionally smaller, which I don’t think is true. I do think that image is projected on purpose, though.
The legion go s with steam OS should replace it 10000% but I don’t know if it will. There will never be a steam deck 2 and the steam deck is already outdated and slow.
Tell me how it’s slow? If you turn on fps counters and your goal is to make that number go higher then you’re not using the deck to play games.
When you are competing with PCs and home consoles. <30fps is slow in my opinion. Or. Turn the graphics super low and get maybe ~40? The CPU/GPU is subpar The ram is okay for most games, but soon 32 will be the new required standard. The ssd makes apple seem generous…
I’m not bashing on it, I enjoy the steam deck, but if someone were to say they want to buy one right now I’d suggest waiting for legion go s or “the next steam deck” a few years from now. Unless valve cuts the cost of the steam deck by at least $100 each model, it’s not worth it anymore. There are dozens of better handhelds that you can install steam os on instead.
Note. I do also realize the steam deck community is hardcore shilly and everything I said will be read but not actually enter a brain and just passed off. Which is fine. Like I said I like the steam deck overall.
So you’re comparing a handheld system with full on desktops and consoles… No need to figure the “discussion” then.
Citation for there never being a Steam Deck 2?
Because the interview at CES 2025 heavily implied it: https://youtu.be/UI-C-nZnDE8?t=525
And the article we’re commenting on mentioned it.
Well that’s cool. I heard just last year they weren’t going to and instead just make steam os more available. I’m not going to scrounge the internet for one video I saw several months ago sorry.
But what’s weird is when I look for steam deck 2 I get contradicting info like “steam deck several years away” and in the exact same particle “possibly late 2025”
it can still run everything, nothing outdated about it just yet
That is over generalising. I got Control recently (great game BTW) and it technically runs but isn’t really playable. That said I still love that little machine and it is an auto include in my bag whenever I’m away from my desktop for a longer time.
It can “run” everything you mean. I at games that either struggle to stay above 30 or look worse than switch graphics. So because a game can run doesn’t mean it’s viably playable to other people. I think the aim should be medium settings for new games at a steady 40fps for the next deck. But for now we have to rely on Linux optimization.
Why would there never be a Steam Deck 2?
Because some people love going off headlines, and not the actual articles, and then further twist information, to promote their narrative.
They never said there will never be one. They said there won’t be yearly incremental releases, because they want a substantial performance leap. And that is something I strongly admire. Makes the customers feel more secure in their choice, and lets Valve work on new stuff in peace
touchpads
Man, I strongly dislike the touchpads on all of Valve’s controllers. They just hurt my wrists a bunch.
I prefer the optical nub on the GPD Win, which I noticed is making a reappearance in the Legion Go S, actually, so that’s a step up for me. Not that I’m in the market for a handheld this gen, I’m mostly set.
Of course the weird mouse mode thing of the big boy Legion Go is a much better brute force solution than either, if you need to use one for any stretch of time beyond clicking the one thing. It’s going to be very weird have that turn out to be the model for the Switch 2’s mouse gimmick if and when that gets confirmed.
IMO Valve has the highest quality touchpads that I have ever interacted with on any product. They also pioneered haptic feedback, which makes their touchpads more usable than any other implementation that currently exists.
As a touchpad, maybe. But they’re not being used as a touchpad, they’re being used as this weird physical input substitute thing that is meant to work with your thumb. Two thumbs, actually. Sliding my thumb that way while holding the thing I’m using causes excruciating pain almost immediately, but even in the brief period until it does it’s less functional than a large touchpad, let alone a mouse or a stick.
I know some people swear by them, I just don’t think they’re worth the space they take up as a pointer device and I don’t think they’re particularly useful as anything else.
But hey, that’s the point of PCs, right? People who agree with me can get the Legion Go S with the actually good Thinkpad-style optical nub and people who like playing games by scratching a plastic square for some reason can stick to the Deck.
Sliding my thumb that way while holding the thing I’m using causes excruciating pain almost immediately
Super bizarre and atypical. Probably a conversation you should have with your doctor.
I, along with pretty much anyone else that has used it, find they are surprisingly usable with thumbs, as they were designed to be. The left touchpad is especially useful as virtual menu and allows the device to be used effectively in many more games than is possible with other devices that are lacking these hardware features. Informational video and demo of touchpad virtual menu: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vorhbmYIFpg
It is atypical, and certainly a medical issue, but I’m not alone there by any means. People who like these do tend to be loud and proud about it, so they stand out more, but it’s worth pointing out that any time Valve has tried to have them as a primary input they had to either reintroduce sticks alongside them or swap them out for sticks altogether. Accessibility wise I know people who share my issues and people who say they interact better with their own mobility problems. That’s always the case with ergonomics and accessibility issues. On the plus side, that has taken me into a lively and very expensive habit of controller collecting, so… yay for me.
FWIW, I’m aware of the functionality, which works just as well with a modifier button and a stick. Those things and a lot of the features attached to them are, and have always been, a solution looking for a problem. There are very few games where the developer hasn’t provided a viable control mapping that the Steam layers turn into a comfortable gaming experience. In most cases if it’s not intended to be used with a controller I’d much rather go sit somewhere with a mouse and keyboard.
any time Valve has tried to have them as a primary input they had to either reintroduce sticks alongside them or swap them out for sticks altogether
Such as…? Or are you just referring to the original Steam Controller teaser concept, compared to the final product that has a left stick in addition to the 2 touchpads (which is objectively a better design, and I appreciate that the left stick was included).
In most cases if it’s not intended to be used with a controller I’d much rather go sit somewhere with a mouse and keyboard.
That’s fine to only use the Steam Deck for games that were designed controller-first, but the point of the device and its major success has been to make any game, including non-controller games, playable in handheld form factor, and Valve’s touchpads have been the primary factor in that success.
This is the reason I see other devices that lack touchpads and can instantly dismiss them, as they aren’t really selling a product that is in the same category as the Steam Deck and therefore do not really compete with the Steam Deck. They are just selling a handheld console (despite the fact that they run Windows, made clear by how awkward and strange the interaction with the OS is), which is something that is not new and have existed since the late 80s. The Steam Deck is not a handheld console, it is a handheld PC. It is true that there are other examples of handheld PC devices, which are true competitors to Steam Deck, like GDP Win, but these attempts have not been nearly as successful.
Legion go will have one for mouse. Not great for games I’d imagine. But I’d also imagine 99% of people use the joysticks on a steam deck when playing a game.
But, software usually dies before hardware does.
