If you’ve ever been on public transit, you know it’s not really just about the fare dodgers. It’s also about having someone, anyone, with authority regularly check up on things to crack down on the crazy shit happening that will discourage average riders from using the system — people blaring music, dance crews putting on impromptu shows on your train car, junkies overdosing in the corner, some guy making the train platform his permanent home, people pissing, shitting and vomiting in the wrong locations, influencers shooting their latest TikTok.
I’m all for free public transit, but I’d still want to see a staff presence on board telling people that don’t know how to behave in public to cut it the fuck out.
I don’t know what the staff could do about it these days.
Hey could you please turn down your music?
Music guy: “Fuck you” and turns it up.
And that’s that.
Any escalation beyond that becomes a civil or criminal issue.
I really don’t get why they don’t ditch the turnstile system and do what a lot of European cities do. No turnstiles but ticket inspectors will randomly once in a blue moon surround you and require you show a valid ticket or give you a massive fine.
a massive fine
Actually, although that has changed some recently, the fines are really rather reasonable. Last time I was in Berlin I think it was like 30€. And in many cases can be avoided all together by buying a slightly more expensive ticket on the spot. A lot of people also just don’t mind and are of the opinion that those who don’t pay probably just don’t have the money for it.
I was mostly talking about the city where I live Which is massive in that its 50x the normal ticket amount.
The fine here is in the order of 300$…
Asking the same question as the last time this article was posted:
Can anyone explain to me what the consequence for fare jumping is if they don’t do this enforcement? Can an economist explain what the expected value lost from additional jumping is without enforcement?
When I lived in NYC, I began getting monthly passes through work. I did this for 3 years, paying $100/mo or $1,200 a year. I was getting paid pennies to make a big company bigger, so I stopped paying and started jumping. I jumped for around 2 years on my commute and for any other transit. I had a pay per ride card if I was on a date or if I needed the bus transfer. I figured out which cars to hide in to avoid paying for LIRR or the Metro North tickets (hint: at rush hour, no one can walk through the cars).
I was caught one time, I jumped the turnstiles into the 6 train at 68th/Hunter College. Right in front of 3 cops looking for jumpers (of course they were trying to ticket poor college kids). Got a ticket for $85. Still less than my monthly card would have cost. I was gonna argue it with some lame ass excuse but ended up paying it just so I wouldn’t have to take a day off work. I still saved over $2300 by jumping.
So, not to say that this program is effective, but how many people were in a similar circumstance as me but decided not to jump because of deterrence policing?
Can anyone explain to me what the consequence for fare jumping is if they don’t do this enforcement? Can an economist explain what the expected value lost from additional jumping is without enforcement?
There is net societal gain from effectively reducing the price of transit, therefore encouraging its use, therefore reducing traffic congestion.
The transit agency’s books might not look quite as good because of lower fare revenue, but that’s okay because (a) as I explained above, the positive externalities outweigh the “losses,” and (b) government agencies aren’t supposed to make a profit anyway.
In theory I agree with you, but in practice free transit might actually deter use of public transit by those who could afford to drive. Los Angeles has done a good job building new public transit but since the pandemic and the elimination of fares, conditions on the trains, particularly the subways, have deteriorated significantly. Violent crime (assault, murder, rape) has jumped, often involving homeless.
Example: https://news.yahoo.com/l-riders-bail-metro-trains-120007450.html
The problem there isn’t free transit, though; the problem there is failing to house the homeless. Although I realize there are people (like you) who bring it up in good faith, I can’t help but think that the people who came up with the idea that charging for transit is good because it keeps homeless off the trains aren’t actually interested in improving either transit or homelessness.
Also, not having to enforce fare evasion frees up transit police to deter violent crime.
I can’t help but think that the people who came up with the idea that charging for transit is good because it keeps homeless off the trains aren’t actually interested in improving either transit or homelessness.
Congratulations your Mk II I-Don’t-Think-You-Assholes-Actually-Care Fire and Forget Torpedo scored a direct hit on your opponents Battleship HMS Austerity hitting the engine room and immediately (rhetorically) obliterating five whole subreddits of libertarians.
Thank you for your service
I roll for initiative against the commenter.
It’s super effective, the commenter is an ADHD type Pokémon!
The commenter will not get anything productive done for the rest of the day and will instead go on a tangent researching meerkats.
it doesn’t cost them anything to have an extra body on a train though. maybe the fares add up to that, but that’s not “losing money”
