The average commute is 52 miles. Most EVs sold in the US have a range of 250 miles or more.
No one cares about “average commute” when buying an electric car and considering the offered range. They’re thinking about long trips.
So a resistive heater eating 10% of your range is way less of an issue than your battery not charging properly in cold weather.
Who said anything about batteries “not charging properly”? What does that even mean?
heat pumps should be available, but they aren’t going to save you if cold weather kills your battery.
We’re not talking about killing batteries, we’re talking about electric range. Heat pumps extend your electric range and 20 miles can absolutely be the difference between making it to the next charger or not.
Lots of people consider only their commute. They just don’t complain about… Making it to work OK? Or don’t announce it? The frequency of 200+ mile trips is vastly overestimated by anti-EV people in both terms of how often they do such trips and how many more people live in dense, urban areas. Lots of people already have shitty, dedicated commuter cars they wouldn’t want to sit in for more than an hour as it is. A half-dead 2011 Leaf would still cover my 40-mile round trip. Back when I daily’d a Geo Tracker, I’d take my spouse’s normal gas sedan if we had a trip. Or my weekend gas car. The average number of vehicles in US households that own cars is 2.3 cars. An EV can be slotted into most households without any real change.
The frequency of 200+ mile trips is vastly overestimated by anti-EV people
The frequency is irrelevant. Again, if you want to go on a single trip, literally ever, in the entire time you ever own that vehicle, it needs to be able to make that trip, and it needs to be able to do it in a reasonable amount of time.
A half-dead 2011 Leaf would still cover my 40-mile round trip.
If you only ever drive back and forth to work, then I feel really really sorry for you, but you are an extreme minority in that sense.
If you have a garage or place to easily charge the EV when at home or work, the amount of time saved over the life of the car never having to go to a gas station is dramatically more than the amount of time spent charging an EV on a road trip.
lol. You are arguing that driving an EV on long road trips is untenable because of the charging stops. Yet driving an ICE costs 5-10 minutes every 1 or 2 weeks that an EV never has to do. Get a fucking clue bra.
if you want to go on a single trip, literally ever
Exactly.
We do a road trip about once/year, and our trips are long enough that renting a car for that specific trip is impractical.
We have two cars, a hybrid commuter (hopefully an EV soon) and an ICE family car (hopefully an EV soon). That family car isn’t going to be an EV until it can do >500 miles/charge, especially if refuels take >20 min. We rarely go that far, but when we do, we need the range because our trips are often >800 miles in a single day (usually only one actual stop for food, we pack lunches). Yeah, that trip isn’t very frequent, but it does happen and there’s no way I’m spending 2 hours of the trip waiting for my battery to recharge.
Our commuter, however, can absolutely be an EV, because the furthest it will ever need to go is about 100 miles in a single day (25 miles to work, 20 miles to the airport, 35 miles back home, and maybe a stop at a store). But it needs to be able to do that in winter as well as summer, and after a few years of ownership, so 150-200 miles is a better range.
You’re an excellent case for my point. Most car-owning households in the US have slightly more than 2 cars. An EV covers your needs 335 days of the year and a gas car covers the other 30 days, yet people act like that’s why they need a 7 seat suv every day. I plugin hybrid will be my next move when I stop picking up lumber every weekend and put my little trailer back in use for the once a month “haul”
Yes, one EV can work, but only as a second vehicle.
We’re actually trying to downsize from a minivan (we have three kids), to a 5-seater SUV for the family car. The minivan is super convenient, but fuel is expensive (and pollutes) and we both hate driving it. Unfortunately, most smaller SUVs have very little towing capacity, so we need to find something just big enough to tow what we need, but not so big that we lose all fuel efficiency.
I just said I’ll use one of the 2 other gas cars when needed and didn’t even mention the bikes, but OK, you do you, ignore everything I said about having multiple cars because you’re mated to yours for life or something. You speak for the world. You’re the face of the majority. There’s definitely not an actual silent majority of people who don’t give a shit about cars, don’t talk about cars, treat cars as a costly appliance, and keep buying EVs for their boring, sub-100 mile commutes.
Which have a whole bunch of issues of their own. Like increased mechanical complexity, and that you might use gas so seldom that it becomes significantly water by the time you do need it.
Most people aren’t road tripping in their electric vehicle every day. If you don’t understand how temperature affects battery chemistry, capacity, and charging I don’t understand how you can even be in this conversation.
Most people aren’t road tripping in their electric vehicle every day.
They can’t road trip ever if the vehicle doesn’t have sufficient range. I don’t understand how you can even be in this conversation when you don’t understand basic principles like this.
If you don’t understand how temperature affects battery chemistry, capacity, and charging
I understand how it affects all of these. It doesn’t cause any of it to “not charge properly”. EVs are used in the coldest places in the world with no major charging problems.
I’ve driven from Madison, WI to Chicago in an EV with ~100 mile range in cold weather. Wouldn’t be my first choice, but I was in a pinch at the time. It can work, but getting a reliable charger network is the biggest problem. Made three stops to chargers that were broken or inaccessible for various reasons.
That was a couple of years back, and I think it’d go a bit smoother now. The Chicagoland area has reasonably good charger network outlays (much better than Minneapolis, which is a joke). Still wouldn’t be my first choice, but it’s workable.
I almost feel like you need two cars unless you are a 100% urban driver. An EV for commuting (with a plug at work) and shopping would make sense and a 2nd car, preferably some sort of hybrid, for everything else.
My wife has a Nissan leaf with 60 mile range for commuting, I have an old gas hatchback we can take for road trips. Before going off about how rich and privileged this setup is, the Leaf was purchased for 6k, 4k after tax rebates. Hatchback was purchased for 6k 9 years ago.
No one cares about “average commute” when buying an electric car and considering the offered range. They’re thinking about long trips.
Who said anything about batteries “not charging properly”? What does that even mean?
We’re not talking about killing batteries, we’re talking about electric range. Heat pumps extend your electric range and 20 miles can absolutely be the difference between making it to the next charger or not.
Lots of people consider only their commute. They just don’t complain about… Making it to work OK? Or don’t announce it? The frequency of 200+ mile trips is vastly overestimated by anti-EV people in both terms of how often they do such trips and how many more people live in dense, urban areas. Lots of people already have shitty, dedicated commuter cars they wouldn’t want to sit in for more than an hour as it is. A half-dead 2011 Leaf would still cover my 40-mile round trip. Back when I daily’d a Geo Tracker, I’d take my spouse’s normal gas sedan if we had a trip. Or my weekend gas car. The average number of vehicles in US households that own cars is 2.3 cars. An EV can be slotted into most households without any real change.
No they don’t.
The frequency is irrelevant. Again, if you want to go on a single trip, literally ever, in the entire time you ever own that vehicle, it needs to be able to make that trip, and it needs to be able to do it in a reasonable amount of time.
If you only ever drive back and forth to work, then I feel really really sorry for you, but you are an extreme minority in that sense.
If you have a garage or place to easily charge the EV when at home or work, the amount of time saved over the life of the car never having to go to a gas station is dramatically more than the amount of time spent charging an EV on a road trip.
I don’t understand what that has to do with anything?
lol. You are arguing that driving an EV on long road trips is untenable because of the charging stops. Yet driving an ICE costs 5-10 minutes every 1 or 2 weeks that an EV never has to do. Get a fucking clue bra.
lol. I did no such thing. You imagined that. I said it’s untenable without sufficient vehicle range.
And even if I didn’t, you can’t just exchange time at the gas pump for time at a charging station. That’s not the way time works…
Get a fucking clue bra
Exactly.
We do a road trip about once/year, and our trips are long enough that renting a car for that specific trip is impractical.
We have two cars, a hybrid commuter (hopefully an EV soon) and an ICE family car (hopefully an EV soon). That family car isn’t going to be an EV until it can do >500 miles/charge, especially if refuels take >20 min. We rarely go that far, but when we do, we need the range because our trips are often >800 miles in a single day (usually only one actual stop for food, we pack lunches). Yeah, that trip isn’t very frequent, but it does happen and there’s no way I’m spending 2 hours of the trip waiting for my battery to recharge.
Our commuter, however, can absolutely be an EV, because the furthest it will ever need to go is about 100 miles in a single day (25 miles to work, 20 miles to the airport, 35 miles back home, and maybe a stop at a store). But it needs to be able to do that in winter as well as summer, and after a few years of ownership, so 150-200 miles is a better range.
You’re an excellent case for my point. Most car-owning households in the US have slightly more than 2 cars. An EV covers your needs 335 days of the year and a gas car covers the other 30 days, yet people act like that’s why they need a 7 seat suv every day. I plugin hybrid will be my next move when I stop picking up lumber every weekend and put my little trailer back in use for the once a month “haul”
Yes, one EV can work, but only as a second vehicle.
We’re actually trying to downsize from a minivan (we have three kids), to a 5-seater SUV for the family car. The minivan is super convenient, but fuel is expensive (and pollutes) and we both hate driving it. Unfortunately, most smaller SUVs have very little towing capacity, so we need to find something just big enough to tow what we need, but not so big that we lose all fuel efficiency.
I just said I’ll use one of the 2 other gas cars when needed and didn’t even mention the bikes, but OK, you do you, ignore everything I said about having multiple cars because you’re mated to yours for life or something. You speak for the world. You’re the face of the majority. There’s definitely not an actual silent majority of people who don’t give a shit about cars, don’t talk about cars, treat cars as a costly appliance, and keep buying EVs for their boring, sub-100 mile commutes.
I don’t speak for the world, facts do. You are not a “silent majority”. You are an extreme minority.
If only plug-in hybrids existed…
Which have a whole bunch of issues of their own. Like increased mechanical complexity, and that you might use gas so seldom that it becomes significantly water by the time you do need it.
So don’t put gas in it if you don’t need it?
Most people aren’t road tripping in their electric vehicle every day. If you don’t understand how temperature affects battery chemistry, capacity, and charging I don’t understand how you can even be in this conversation.
They can’t road trip ever if the vehicle doesn’t have sufficient range. I don’t understand how you can even be in this conversation when you don’t understand basic principles like this.
I understand how it affects all of these. It doesn’t cause any of it to “not charge properly”. EVs are used in the coldest places in the world with no major charging problems.
I’ve driven from Madison, WI to Chicago in an EV with ~100 mile range in cold weather. Wouldn’t be my first choice, but I was in a pinch at the time. It can work, but getting a reliable charger network is the biggest problem. Made three stops to chargers that were broken or inaccessible for various reasons.
That was a couple of years back, and I think it’d go a bit smoother now. The Chicagoland area has reasonably good charger network outlays (much better than Minneapolis, which is a joke). Still wouldn’t be my first choice, but it’s workable.
Not sure what your point is. I never said anything to the contrary.
Not sure how you are being downvoted. You’re absolutely right. Everyone I know that wants an EV wants more range.
I almost feel like you need two cars unless you are a 100% urban driver. An EV for commuting (with a plug at work) and shopping would make sense and a 2nd car, preferably some sort of hybrid, for everything else.
My wife has a Nissan leaf with 60 mile range for commuting, I have an old gas hatchback we can take for road trips. Before going off about how rich and privileged this setup is, the Leaf was purchased for 6k, 4k after tax rebates. Hatchback was purchased for 6k 9 years ago.
I’m glad that works out for you.