Summary
The Supreme Court is reviewing whether the FDA unlawfully blocked over a million kid-friendly flavored vape products, which critics say fuel youth nicotine addiction.
Despite FDA bans, flavors like fruit and candy dominate illicit vape sales, with 1.6 million minors using such products.
Vape companies argue flavored e-liquids help adult smokers quit, but the FDA counters that their evidence is insufficient to outweigh youth addiction risks.
A lower court sided with the companies, and the Supreme Court’s ruling, expected by June 2025, could reshape vaping regulations.
If you ask adults who smoke if they were to switch to e-cigarettes what kind of flavors are they interested in, the majority of responses are tobacco flavor.
Oh, bullshit.
100% bullshit. “Tobacco flavored” juice is just carmel flavoring and tastes nothing like cigarettes.
A smoker would definitely want to switch to their tobacco flavor
However,
A smoker that tries tobacco flavor does not want to switch to tobacco flavor
Smokers enjoy their cigarette’s flavor. If they could just get it in a vape many would.
Expecting a smoker to be like “I wish my cigarette tasted like Mint Mojito”. Is crazy.
So I do believe that the majority of the responses are tobacco flavor
Just doesn’t mean what they think it means
Many would just try tobacco flavor, hate it, and move back to cigarettes.
I actually created a true cigarette flavor in the early 2010s, but I had to buy a flavoring called ashtray, and the result was just as disgusting as smoking an actual cigarette.
They think they want a cigarette flavor, but they’re wrong.
Never cared for vaping or e cigarettes, but I recently stopped smoking cigarettes again and haven’t had one in about 3.5 weeks even though I have a pack in the car, and usually have one in my pocket when walking around. I have been using fruit flavored vapes this time. If they just tasted like real cigarettes I would not use it, id definitely go back to smoking. What’s the point then. Id be more likely to try out nicotine oils at that point you just put on your skin, but I doubt they would do me much good because a lot of it for me is about having something in my hand to toy around with. There was a period I quit drinking for 6 months, still went to bars to socialize and such, just drank gingerale or something I could pass off as a drink so it didn’t get questions and I could toy with it. Fidget spinners and shit never clicked for me.
That said, I’m sure they get more people to use them than normal cigarettes do, they taste good, and don’t smell bad.
My question more so is… What is the court deciding? It’s either does the law prohibit them or not, and is the law legal without an amendment or not. It should have nothing to do with if more people get addicted or if companies say it helps people get off cigarettes. Those are distractions from legislation.
Judges say: it says 12 It doesn’t matter if 12 is better or worse for our society, what matters is a judge says it is written as 12.
If the population believes 12 is not the best answer, then our representatives write an amendment or law that says 17.
Asking the courts to approve things on moral/ ethical standings is directly conflating the courts to use bias and undermining the government process/branches created to ensure it doesn’t all fall apart like it is.
“For the kids” strikes again!
It won’t stop them. They’ll find ways around it instantly or go for other alternatives.Also, adults like candy and fruit too.
If you’re going after flavored vapes, you need to go after flavored alcohol too.
Why not?
Your comment sounds whatsboutism but I buy it! Let’s ban flavoured alcohol too.
Prohibitionism doesn’t work because a black market emerges but as long the limitations are small enough to not have a significant black market, it is fine. Blocking flavour in vapes/alchool hardly will create a new Al Capone
There’s no good reason to ban flavors.
If flavors don’t incentive addition, why do you think manufacturers are pushing back? Why there is a black market?
Because people enjoy flavors other than tobacco or menthol, and manufacturers will make more money if people have more choices.
It would be like the government saying bakeries can only use chocolate and vanilla as flavors.
Because flavors are a potential (idk i don’t vape) way of differentiating brands.
I am not saying these companies aren’t doing it for the addiction primarily, but there are non evil reasons that could be applied if these were food/beverage companies.
The point of blocking these laws is about people having the freedoms to live their lives like they want.
Banning ice cream would have no ill effects on the populations health, and would help many people, but people still want the freedom to eat ice cream.
We are banning all ice cream flavors but vanilla! Chocolate chip cookie dough, that’s just luring more kids into being addicted to ice cream
That line of thinking has already created a massive market for disposable vapes that waste a crazy amount of fully rechargeable Li batteries
Ok
…poke
You broken?
Hello in there!
This kinda shit always pisses me off because if you actually look up the statistics for the use of tobacco products over the years, we’ve been seeing a steady decline since the 90’s. So I’d like to counter your counter and say where is the actual data showing the increase in tobacco products among the youth? All you’re saying is that sales are up. And as someone that switched to vaping after 15 years of smoking, I’m calling bullshit on the “most adults prefer tobacco flavor” claim you’re making. I’ve even asked the dude that runs my local vape shop what the most popular flavor was when I was looking for new flavors to try and it definitely was tobacco flavored. Even my 70 year old mom who smoked for 50 years didn’t even go for tobacco flavor.
Kids are still gonna vape regardless of flavor. It’s the nicotine that’s the problem. That shit is so addictive it could taste like literal ass and people would still use it. Smoking doesn’t taste good but kids have been doing that for years.
I’ve found that the whole asinine idea of “adults don’t like sweet flavor” is pervasive even beyond vapes. I had to specifically ask my dentist for the “flavored” toothpaste thing they use on deep cleaning because they assume all adults just default to mint or whatever.
This kinda shit always pisses me off because if you actually look up the statistics for the use of tobacco products over the years, we’ve been seeing a steady decline since the 90’s. So I’d like to counter your counter and say where is the actual data showing the increase in tobacco products among the youth?
Five seconds of Googling will find those results for you.
The TL;DR is that the 2024 numbers are down significantly from 2023, and that much of that decline is attributed to bans on certain vaping products. But in many years prior, usage was on the rise. For example, in high school students, use of any tobacco product rose 38% from 2017 to 2018 alone.
That’s because they’re labeling vapes as a tobacco product, which it isn’t.
You wouldn’t call a red bull a coffee product because coffee contains caffeine.
I’m so conflicted on this. I’m an adult, and I like things that taste good (including flavored vape juice) even if they’re not good for me. Again, I’m an adult capable of making my own choices. There are already controls in place to prevent youth from accessing them, and I wholly oppose banning them under the guise of “for the children”. So, I’m hoping SC strikes down the block.
That said, this SC is a loose cannon, and if they do strike down the block, they’ll probably do it in the worst way possible and declare the whole FDA unconstitutional or something.
I’m curious what they’ll do as well as it was Trump’s FDA that enacted this and decimated the entire industry which is the sole reason why 90% of people are using disposable vapes now instead of mods like they used to.
Put on a blindfold and throw a dart? I’ve given up expecting any kind of logical consistency out of that group.
I’d have no problem banning the disposable ones as they’re a scourge, but the juice is where I have the issue. Also, yeah, I do miss my re-buildable rigs, but no shops sell the parts anymore; it’s all the packaged / disposable coils which I hate but grudgingly use.
How does the FDA block favor disposable vapes? I’ve also seen that trend of course, just curious how that has contributed to mods falling out.
Because nearly all the US juice companies that were around had their applications rejected by the FDA and shut down once the rules were implemented. I’m honestly not even sure where all these disposibles and the few remaining juice brands are coming from, but it’s probably China
disposables are in a quasi-legal loophole
They’ll keep the ban. Because they need to protect the tobacco industry.
It’ll just depend on Drumps mood when the SC asks him, maybe big tobacco pisses him off that day, who knows on this timeline
Idgaf about flavors, it’s the nicotine that’s the problem.
Honestly, we really shouldn’t have let vaping look cool, because that’s how we got the cigarette problem in the first place.
Am I the only one that thinks vaping looks trashy? It’s a step up from cigarettes but that is not saying much.
It’s not only the nicotine that is the problem. We have not had long term study on what happens when you vaporize the additives and breathe them in. The whole insist needs much more regulation. Targeting flavors specifically is pretty stupid though. Why target flavors there and not for alcohol? I remember only wanting mixed drinks initially because straight alcohol and cheap beer tasted disgusting.
Vaping is almost as cool as coal rolling.
One of my friends is addicted to her THC vape and always has it on her. I’ve had to ask her to put it away because it triggers my allergy symptoms. I also low key hate that my living room smells like artificial cotton candy for a few hours after
Tbf, I’m pretty sure COVID gave me a THC allergy 😭 But I’m also allergic to cigarette smoke so I’m not fond of nic vapes either. I’m fine with fog machines though.
Way more likely you are allergic to whatever random flavours are in there than THC itself.
Nah the THC allergy is also triggered by joints and edibles
They use it in your home? I would yeet someone so hard if they even asked.
Nicotine is about as dangerous as caffeine, and actually has health benefits.
It’s the 9000 other chemicals in burned tobacco that’s a problem.
The entire thing is pretty nasty. 0mg nicotine liquid still turns into weird aerosols and the coils still corrode, releasing harmful metal particles into said aerosol.
None of that is true.
0mg nicotine liquid still turns into weird aerosols …
Propylene glycol and vegetable glycerin don’t change into anything else when slightly warmed and vaporized. PG and VG are what makes liquid-based fog machines work.
… the coils still corrode, releasing harmful metal particles into said aerosol.
No they do not. What happens is that the kanthal wire and cotton wick will become clogged with leftover fluid, and then you change the coil. The only time anyone has gotten any metal to leach from a vape coil was by firing it at incredibly high power for a very long time. Doing that and then inhaling the resulting substance would be impossible. It would be far too hot and you would cough it out immediately.
Now, I’m not saying that vaping is harmless, but it’s definitely less harmful than inhaling tobacco smoke.
So I used to work in the industry, and everything you mentioned was the rhetoric used by people who only ever did the most basic surface level investigation. Now I’m not trying to say I don’t think you’ve done any research at all or anything, but I am suggesting you look further into the situation. Technically calling it “vapor” is very misleading, and now, when most vapes are disposable with no replaceable parts, and the liquid being held entirely in a wicking material rather than a tank or pod (which have their own issues, plastics being exposed to high heat, etc.), the “just replace the coil” line of operation doesn’t apply. And even when it did, most people who came to the shop I worked at would push their coils WAY past the point of safety. The last point, though, still generally holds true, IN THE RIGHT CIRCUMSTANCES. Circumstances which most casual users don’t bother maintaining. If you’re a heavy smoker, vaping is generally less harmful, and that’s about the only way that rhetoric checks out.
There are many sources that disagree with you…
Hey early 1900 welcome back. Can’t wait to see more cigarettes commercials coming out as well.
8 out of 10 “doctors” smoke Cameltron®️©️ 3000 e-cigs. It’s zapped full of electronitaste™️.
I buy my vapes in “illicit sales”, and I’m very much an adult. I just prefer it to knock-off tobacco flavors. And, frankly, there’s no real way for me to quit nicotine at this time.
I like nicotine. I don’t like the lung cancer, is all.
DIY juice is easy to make and takes very little experience. Recipes are available online and you mix by weight. It does take some safety precautions as nicotine concentrate is very poisonous, but if you don’t want nic all you need is PG, VG, and flavoring.
I started DIYing years ago and never looked back. The only large initial cost is the nicotine, which you buy in concentrate, but the overall cost when you make your juice is cheap as hell. The rate I go through it I have decades of nicotine and my cost per ml is ~6 cents. Most of that cost is the nicotine.
We don’t exactly have long term studies on vaporized nicotine’s effects on the lungs. Same goes for the regulated additives. For the illicit stuff, there is no possibility of long term study because they can really put anything they want in there. If you are trying to avoid lung cancer, you likely are not choosing a decent route or you may be trading lung cancer for something that sucks equally as much.
I think the flavor ban is ridiculous but maybe stick to stuff that is at least slightly regulated until flavors are allowed again and there is regulation on it.
I’d love to stick to the non-illicit sales, however, they banned everything except “Knock off tobacco flavor” which was deemed “safe” by the FDA at the behest of Tobacco industry lobbyists.
I’ll take my “unknown risks” over “known risks of lung cancer, throat cancer, and COPD”… Because as of now, I’m breathing better, and am in better shape now that I gave up combustion of tobacco excepting in a blunt.
Which, interestingly enough, is another area I prefer the “illicit sales” than the “legal sales”… Cannabis in NYS has a shite legal market, and a really good “illicit market”.
Tackling the important issues.
Leave people the fuck alone.
Approve whatever health products and food you want, leave us to our drugs.
We don’t have anything the fuck else. You want to stop kids vaping, go be a fucking parent and quit gooning while your kid browses TikTok.
Hi Philip Morris
Altria, actually. Phillip works on Fridays.
How else are we going to increase shareholder value
