- cross-posted to:
- pcgaming@lemmy.ca
- cross-posted to:
- pcgaming@lemmy.ca
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Hilarious. Logitech’s software has always been an afterthought and now they want me to pay for it? Goooo fuck yourselves. I had to sell a perfectly good keyboard and mouse because their stupid g-hub is harder to navigate than a g-spot.
It kept doing updates and every time it did, it would clobber all my macros and bindings and basically factory reset. I had a txt document on my desktop with all my configs so I could set them back up whenever it decided the configuration gods required a sacrifice.
…I feel sorry for your girlfriend/wife.
Go on, tell us how you work the spot, G Man.
You basically have to go behind the clitoris and stimulate it from the back while working it from the front with your tongue.
They already have a forever mouse - its called Logitech MX518 - at this point its over 18 years old, and beside some small paint deficiencies it has no other issues. And it was used quite heavily - it survived years of intensive button mashing in Diablo2 and many other games…
Logitech has an idea for a “forever mouse”
Great, my money is good to go. I’ll pay big for something that’s easy to keep clean and doesn’t have that horrible sticky rubber after a few years.
that requires a subscription
I’m out.
A comment on the article: “I will go back to a command line before I pay a fucking subscription for a mouse.”
A mouse is not a complex device. African countries can produce computer mice. I mean, using USB requires paying for the license and circuitry for the USB controller, which is why I hate USB for simple periphery, older interfaces solve the problem better. Anyways, they can produce USB mice too. They can even easier produce PS/2 mice.
Damn, that’s pretty racist. You know I come from an “African country” that produces Mercedes right, or like, did the first heart transplant.
Im not sure what you’re trying to infer by what you’re saying, like we’re all some backwards ass fuckwits with 0 ability to do anything? Fuck, we used to produce our own RAM at a stage. Nuclear bombs even.
South Africa excluded as a former colonial state.
Im not sure what you’re trying to infer by what you’re saying, like we’re all some backwards ass fuckwits with 0 ability to do anything? Fuck, we used to produce our own RAM at a stage. Nuclear bombs even.
I live in Russia, I could have written “ex-USSR and African countries” so that you’d not feel offended. Would have the same meaning.
Point being having actual electronics production and not assembly.
The irony of somebody from Russia calling anywhere else a shithole is just profound. Don’t you guys have to pour water in your toilets to flush them? The rest of the world has indoor plumbing mate, even Africa.
Anyway everyone knows that China produces all of the cheap crap anyway, so why wouldn’t you go at them?
Don’t you guys have to pour water in your toilets to flush them?
Are you high or something? Why would we?
The rest of the world has indoor plumbing mate, even Africa.
I would expect an entire continent to have some variability.
Anyway everyone knows that China produces all of the cheap crap anyway, so why wouldn’t you go at them?
China produces all of the crap. Without the “cheap” constraint.
USB is better for modern computing since it doesnt operate on an interrupt basis, like PS2, that’s the problem with PS2, USB is polling based, so it always calls, which also means it’s a lot more versatile and flexible, because you can just call and receive whatever the fuck you want from it.
If you were to use PS2 today, you would likely see a significant performance impact.
Apparently nobody understood in which context this was said.
I meant a Star Wars Expanded Universe-like or solarpunk-like or some other imagined future (but with that element of utopia) world where computers are produced as widely as screwdrivers, are more modular and interoperable and competencies are also more widespread, and where computing is radically simpler due to these two requirements. Because you can’t have TSMC fabs everywhere.
USB is by far too complex a protocol for this when you don’t necessarily need it.
Also many motherboards still have PS/2 , no significant performance impacts, you might have mixed something up. Anyway, from a computer mouse you don’t need much.
Also many motherboards still have PS/2
it’s mostly a legacy thing, either industry boards which are used with windows 95, or boards that just include PS2 because, features™
no significant performance impacts
well, part of the problem is that in order to handle mouse inputs, the PS2 calls an interrupt which stops the entire cpu and forces it to focus on the user input, until it kills it likely over a cycle count metric, and then returns back to what it was doing, though perhaps this was back in the day when interrupts were more common, i wouldn’t be surprised if modern PS2 is just conversion into USB lmao.
you can argue that USB is complex, and it’s not all that complex, it’s just serialized data transmission, the benefit of it’s “complexity” being the massively increased transmission bandwidth compared to something like serial, which is like 32kb/s historically.
Yes, I know. I should clarify that all this was in the context of some imagined future sustainable computing with decentralized production and a bit of luddism.
As in “how would we live in spacefaring future if the PCs we could have were all comparable to Amiga 500”.
Isn’t USB like…a mandatory standard now on all devices?
It’s complex enough if you are making some hobbyist device.
I’m imagining some world with production of anything related to personal computers being as decentralized as that of hand screwdrivers.
In that context USB is complex.
Oh man I was hoping this would be a sub for alternatives to subscriptions, rather than just pointing out that everything is going to a subscription model.
This is so absurd. The only updates peripherals need are firmware bug fixes. And it’s a standard that these updates are free. Having subscriptions for hardware is kinda dystopic tbh
From the podcast:
Some only have a mouse or only a keyboard, but many of them have both. But the thing that shocked me was that the average spend on that globally is $26, which is really so low. This is stuff you use every day, that sits on your desk every day, that you look at every day. That’s like the price of four coffees at Starbucks or less than a Nike running shirt. There is so much room to create more value in that space as we make people more productive — to extend human potential.
You know why on average people spend so little? Because a mouse is just a mouse. It doesn’t need to do anything besides controlling the cursor. It doesn’t need a “dedicated AI button that launches Logi AI Prompt Builder” (which is just a ChatGPT wrapper btw)
I don’t want to be that one person that just complains about capitalism under every post, but things like this make it hard. We have already perfected the design of a mouse. But every year publicly traded companies need to make more money than in the previous year, so let’s add subscriptions to everything. And also AI, because investors love it
Having subscriptions for hardware
actually how i understand that model, the subscription would not be for the “hardware” (which you would still have to ‘buy’ and pay for all of its repairs by yourself) but only for the software which would actually block you from using your own hardware if you stop paying the then-later-by-them-to-be-definded-price for the ‘licence’ to use that software, rendering the hardware a useless piece of junkscrap whenever and as long as they whish or their cloud runs on MShitsoft or is maybe ClownStricken, MacAfff’ed, CEO’ed, CTO’ed, Shareholder’ed or such).
That f*up-idea is afaik explicitly NOT a renting model for hardware where they’ld had to make sure that it actually works before you have to pay the rent, but only a licensing software for that only software that is vendor-locked-in on that vendor-poisoned hardware.
As i know myself, i guess i’ll discontinue to buy or suggest any of their stuff for a few decades from now, for that “idea” only.
Have a nice® day without logitech!
Yeah, apparently the subscription for the mouse would be on top of the upfront cost. I’m honestly baffled that Logitech’s CEO thinks anyone would buy it, this feels like an april fools joke
i believe such happens only bcs society lets people into such positions without checking them to be fit in any way for anything except them having a bank account for receiving millions and a lawyer to check contracts and tell them what they should not say in public and receive parts of these millions in return for changing their customers “pampers”.
or maybe that brainfart was just part of a trip on randomly mind altering illegal substances? or maybe a brain tumor? or maybe a brain parasite? or maybe a parasite brain? or maybe just normal capitalism? or maybe a tumor that grows in society?
i guess we will never know for sure.
Yeah, maybe work on making their switches not start double-clicking after a couple of years first.
I’m on my third-or-fourth one that has done this to me. Once this one gets too bad (they inevitably do) I am through with them. It’s a shame because I really do like their peripherals. The mouse that convinced to keep buying them was an excellent device that lasted a very long time and I only replaced because it was a dinosaur. I used their solar powered keyboard for a decade-and-a-half, too, until I accidentally dropped something on it and broke it. Now, the switches in their mice die on me after a year or two without fail. They’ve clearly cheaped out on components. Fuck em. Goodbye Logitech. I will not miss their software.
I just wish I could find another mouse with the same form factor as the G602/604. That button layout on the side is so nice. I go looking for an alternative every now and then but nothing I’ve found matches it so I’m stuck. I’m on my third 602 and fortunately it seems to be the charm because I’ve had this one for several years and it’s still going strong but it’s certainly annoying that I had to RMA 2 of them to get a lasting one. I also had to do the same with 2 of their headsets. They didn’t even have me send the mouse back last time so I have a second one with a double click problem laying around here somewhere I might see about swapping the switch out one of these days. and yea, the software does suck.
604
That’s the one I’m using now. I like the buttons, too. I also find I only really use them in some pretty niche cases, so I can probably do without.
On my 602 I have them set for switching browser tabs, forward, back, copy, paste, right click>save as, and shift. Those get a lot of use. Then I have specific profiles for some games/apps I use. I would miss that a lot if I had to switch.
Oooh, some of those sound like a really good idea. I’m only using mine for forward and back in browser, but next tab sounds good. Copy and paste, too.
The annoying thing is that fixing the double click is stupidly easy. Years ago, I got frustrated with that exact problem (after a string of 3 mice that each lasted only a few months); so I opened one up and soldered on a random capacitor I had lieing around.
Capacitors like that cost literally less than a penny, and are no more complicated to install at production time than any other component already on the circuit board.
I didn’t know it was a capacitor. I thought it was bent springs. I managed to fix one once by opening up the switches and bending the springs back, but it went back to double clicking within a month, and the process was not easy. I’ve got huge hands, and those switches are tiny.
The actual difference between a working new mouse and a failing double click mouse is in the button itself (mechanical parts are almost always the problem).
However, it is not some exotic failure mode. All mechanical switches have a “bounce”, where the contact makes and breaks a few times before settling into the connected position. Switches are typically designed to make the actual contact spring loaded (which is the origin of the click sound you here). As they age, this mechanism degrades, making the bouncing problem worse.
However, this is a well understood problem that any electrical engineer should be familiar with. One solution is to install a filter capacitor. Now it takes longer to switch between the on and off state, so the inherent bounce in the switch is smoothed out to the point where you cannot detect it.
They probably did testing with a new switch, and decided that they didn’t need to include any explicit debounce component, ignoring the fact that the switch would degrade over its lifetime.
So, the capacitor can mitigate the spring weakening. Good to know. Replacing a cap is probably much easier than taking the switches apart and bending the springs.
I went down a rabbit hole when my mouse started double clicking wanting to know why, especially compared to older mice that seem to last forever. turns out the switches themselves technically haven’t changed or even dropped in quality much over the years, they’ve always used the same shit-tier switches. many modern mice use too low of a voltage and operate out of spec, and the otherwise good enough switches don’t hold up. here’s an hour+ long youtube video about it if you want all the details.
it’s bullshit that it’s necessary, but if you’re willing to solder in new switches you can get better quality ones that will outlast the rest of the mouse for ~$5-10.
willing to solder in new switches you can get better quality ones that will outlast the rest of the mouse for ~$5-10.
That might be worth it. I’ll have to see if I can find those switches.
most logitech mice use the same switches, any Japanese Omron switches will work (avoid the Chinese Omrons). here’s an amazon link to a 2-pack. there’s also a bunch of other switch types nearly as varied as keyboard switches, these are what I put in my mouse, but if you’re just looking to stop the double-clicking the Japanese Omrons are the way to go.
Oooh. I’m sure I can find those in Korea. Thanks!
Side question since this concept is obviously rent seeking… Why is there not a market for premium custom mice like there are for keyboards?
All the mice over the ~$80 range seem to only be gamer mice or focus on adding more and more buttons. Why aren’t there options that are customizable or more premium?
I get that no one wants a solid machined aluminum mouse but surely there is something more premium than adding more buttons.
This concept should be expanded to every industry to show the idea itself is unscrupulous.
When subscription services is shown it should alert consumers to predatory practices
I don’t want a hardware that always needs updates. Are they stupid?
Here’s my rule of thumb:
- if it connects to the internet, it should receive security updates
- if it doesn’t need to connect to the internet, it shouldn’t, and it doesn’t need updates
Mice are firmly in the second category. In fact, I think cars are in the second, and any features that need internet access should go through my phone.
logitech’s software is trash across the board.
Have their MX keyboard and their logi+ software regualrly craps out making the function/special keys unusable until i log off/back on. Sometimes WHILE im using the keyboard.
And their gaming stuff is no better. Many times just having the logitech g suite software running means my mic will randomly stop working, if i remove the software the headset runs fine.
Their hardware is solid, but there is a 0% chance i would pay for their software.
I use their G Hub to remap my mouse buttons and sometimes my config just gets ignored and I increase mouse sensibility instead of pausing the music
I’ve found that’s because their mice will go to sleep and upon first waking they’ll briefly use an onboard profile before switching to the G Hub profile. This is also why it might feel like it has a different DPI briefly or different light settings for just a flash. The only way to fix this is to use their totally separate OnboardMemoryManager software to change the onboard settings while running G Hub. It solved this issue for me and it’s infuriating that this isn’t built into G Hub…
Interesting, I’ll give that a try before switching to something else entirely. Thank you.
In other words: They want me to never buy a Logitech product ever again. Fuck you greedy corporate shitpiles!
Vance Packard warned us, in his book, The Waste Makers.
